As Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton prepare to perform in a pageant of Democratic togetherness in Unity, N.H., Howard Fineman reports on the tensions behind the scenes.
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- Public Discussion (286)
Clinton should still be the candidate. BO has his skin color and his muslim connections to thank for his contributions. This is a vote of black people voting for a black man. They don't really care who he is or whether or not he is qualified.
- 3 votes
do you watch the debates at all? Obama tells his race how it is. he knows what the economy needs. all Clinton cares about is the publicity.
- 2 votes
Since when in America does having Black skin get you anything? He has had to work for everything he has gotten just like every other minority in this country. The only ones who benefit from the color of their skin is whites, and primarily white men. Women are still working towards equality. Why are you so afraid that a bi-racial man who society sees as being only black can bring about a change that our country so badly needs.
- 3 votes
Word on the street is that Marilyn is correct about all the money coming from Muslims off shore. Anyone have any documentation that the mosques in the Middle East have been sending huge amounts of money to mosques in the US to be given to individuals to then be donated to Obama?
Until I see documentation I'm leary of making the assumption this is true.
Facts anyone?
It's not being afraid of a biracial man becoming president. It's what he stands for. This guy is all over the board, we don't know what we are gonna get. He tries to act "white" on the camera, but this guy is "black". Just look at the church he's from. Look at the hate towards America that him and his wife have. Like if this country owes something to the black people. I see a lot of Clinton's voters swinging over to McCain, even though it breaks their hearts to vote for a Republican. But anything is better than OBAMA the flip flopper.
- 1 vote
I totally agree. BO reminds me of the movie "Little Big Man" with Dustin Hoffman. When DH was with the Indians he played as an Indian, when DH was with white settlers he played as white. BO goes back and forth with no real concern for either other than himself.
- 3 votes
Clinton deserves it less than Obama, who also in my opinion doesn't deserve it. Many, many don't support Hillary because of not just her values, but her actions demonstrating those values. Obama, while not Kerry, may be one huge flip-flopper depending on who he is talking to, but Clinton takes flip-floppering and can add power-hungry to her list, with economic proposals that long run severely hurt the poor and middle class. I care about who the candidates are and the experience that they have. It's Hillary's experience that gave her the highest negativity rating of any candidate in history. Nobody with a negative rating higher than Bush could possibly be voted in as President. both choices were bad, Hillary was the worst, Obama comes in next as the man with no real proposals or suggestions to offer, and McCain is the best choice now with his willingness to let the experts and professionals in their respective fields say how things should be done in those fields instead of following the path of the other two and ignoring those who are actually trained and qualified experts in areas we need to improve.
Maria - you are a total idiot and a racist. These comments make me sick. Unfortunately you aren't going to change so go do what you want but don't make a fool of yourself.
what muslim connections! wow here we go again with those farytail like acusations,
and there you go categorizing "back people" like you know everything about them! pitiful, pitiful and pure ignorance!!
- 2 votes
Before this election is over this will become a major black/white issue, that is why the media wanted Obama to be nominee. It will get people tuned to there tv stations and buying news papers.
It wouldn't be this way if not for the fact that 90% of blacks voted for Obama. A little one sided with racist overtones don't you think?
Sorry, one more note to Amelia Everhart
It wasnt the "black people" who got obama elected. Contrary to what fantisy land yo believe in. It was the vast majority of White American who came out and voted for a black man that htey believed in. that is the change that Obama speaks of and the very change that got him elected.
Believe me, if black people alone were able to get a man/woman elected as president then we wouldn have had 8 years of a mistake that is Bush!!!!
- 1 vote
You think that he should get her out of the debt, she decided to get in this race, it wasn't his idea, you people are so ignorant...
- 2 votes
Amelia, thank you for such raving hubris. You cannot say that you know the minds of ALL African-Americans and why they voted for Senator Obama. It could never be because some of them thought he was the best candidate for the job. Oh, I guess that's just impossible. Your arrogance is overwhelming.LOLOL.
- 3 votes
No one flips flops more than John McCain. I don't even know anymore if he is just flip flopping or just outright lying. I could never trust him.
- 2 votes
Even though this is not true, it would not be any different then the KKK that is gathering around right now, to give their money to make sure McCain is voted in as they have done so many times before !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amelia, You are very wrong....and obviously amoung the 15% of the ignorant people that believe Obama is a muslim or has muslim connections! Congradulations for being a racist! I am a white female and I am voting for Barack Obama. If Hilary would have won, I would have voted for her even tho I do not really like her. However, I want a democrat in office and have always believed Barack is the man we need to bring our country together. Unfortunately people like you will always be narrow minded, racist, idiots etc!
- 4 votes
ham,...This whole thread is like the uneasy feelings of the H&O supporters. The Fineman article is uneasy. This division only would help one candidate in the end, McCain. I have never understood why Hillary was worthy of that much hate. She lost. He's the candidate.
It's time to drop the recriminations and join behind the candidate. Oh yeah, there will always be ne'er do wells.
- 3 votes
Amelia,
You are inaccurate as far as the black vote is concerned. Although it is true that Mr. Obama could not have won without the black vote, keep in mind that there were far more of us white people that voted for Mr. Obama than there were black. It is time to get over Hillary not being the nominee and unite and support the nominee which is Mr. Obama. No one was as disappointed as I was when Mrs. Clinton did not secure the nomination. I strongly supported her and voted for her in the Ohio Primary. She did not win the nomination so lets use our common sense get behind Mr. Obama so we can at least get this country back on track. If things don't improve during his first term, then we can elect someone else. Give the man a chance. Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- 1 vote
I find it curious that the Obamaites are outraged that they have to help Hillary pay her debt yet they are wanting to UNITE in order to get to her donor list.
Hypocrites hypocrites.
And the worst part is that they're so sanctimonious about it.
- 1 vote
I find it curious that the Obamaites are outraged that they have to help Hillary pay her debt yet they are wanting to UNITE in order to get to her donor list.
Hypocrites hypocrites.
And the worst part is that they're so sanctimonious about it.
Not all of us are like that. I agree, some of my fellow Obama supporters are being hypocritical about the whole debt issue.
- 2 votes
Yet another shining example of what is wrong in the world; hatred and ignorance. It is soo time for you and all those with simple narrow minded views to grow up. SO your candidate didn't win. Too bad, so sad. Pick yourselves, up, dust off your shoulders, and big strong and humble enough to shae hands and congratulate the other candidate for running a fantastic campaign thus far. Wish him continued success and pray that the next eight years and better than the last.
Spewing ignorance and hate only makes you and the candidate that you supported look bad and out of touch with a great part of the population. You candidate is out, Obama is end. Either get onbaord the train still moving towards the White House or get out of the way.
- 1 vote
artchess--I was referring to the Obamaites that were being quoted in the article...
I know. I was just letting you know that not all Obama supporters are like that.
- 1 vote
MARIA-312153I totally agree. BO reminds me of the movie "Little Big Man" with Dustin Hoffman. When DH was with the Indians he played as an Indian, when DH was with white settlers he played as white. BO goes back and forth with no real concern for either other than himself
ROFLOL....You got him, Maria!
- 1 vote
You're an idiot. What about all of the white people that voted for him? He wouldn't have had a chance if only blacks voted for him!
Why does a white person voting for a white man or woman more caring than a black person voting for someone who is black. Would they be more caring if they had voted for a white person?
Like I said, you're an idiot!
- 2 votes
You're an idiot. What about all of the white people that voted for him? He wouldn't have had a chance if only blacks voted for him!
Why does a white person voting for a white man or woman more caring than a black person voting for someone who is black. Would they be more caring if they had voted for a white person?
Like I said, you're an idiot!
dumasrl
So I don't attack the wrong person....Who are you calling an idiot?
And breaking the CoH as well...
You're new here..read the rules!
- 1 vote
Interesting how these selfish and arrogant folks in the Democrat party are still "bitter."
Anyone notice how seamlessly Mitt Romney (2nd in R race) fell in behind McCain and is tirelessly fundraising and doing all he can for McCain. Expect an orderly transition out of the civilized party and get it.
- 1 vote
marie,...The tireless funding raising you mention are actually the formation of cabals gathering in the oil loot to push for an investment in pharmaceuticals. Civilized? They have acted like Visigoths for the last seven years.
- 1 vote
also, the race wasn't nearly as close.
you're comparing apples to oranges.
- 2 votes
your just proveing what a raciest you are.....wake up it's the 21 century
Amelia, your comment shows just how out of touch you ARE with America, NOT Obama.People like you are what keeps race a BIG issue in campaigns. In case you havent been paying attention, there were 36 million people who voted for both Hilary and Obama, and guess what??, there are just as many that wouldnt vote for Hilary just as there were who wouldnt vote for Obama(in the beginning), so quit holding Clinton over Baracks head. ITs over, lets move on!
Clinton should be the nominee??!!?? This is delusional, at best. Senator Clinton LOST in her hard-fought bid for the nomination because she ran a poor campaign (the vast majority of informed observers acknowledge as much). How is it that Senator Clinton was not the least bit concerned with the voting rights of Michiganders and Floridians when she signed the DNC Primary dates agreement? She was not concerned until AFTER she fell behind on Super Tuesday. Only then did she 'CARE" about the "disenfranchisement" of those two states. It doesn't take a cynic to recognize that change of position as lame opportunism. Did gender biases play a part in her loss? Possibly. Did race work in Obama's favor? On the balance, NO. Consider your own racist remark -- I'll bet you don't even think of yourself as racist. Unfortunately, America still has a long way to go with regard to race relations. Sample the blogs. There was RARELY a comment to the effect of "I just can't bring myself to vote for a woman". But there were FREQUENT comments indicating a person would not vote for Obama due to his race, his "funny" name, or the "fact" that he's a MUSLIM !!!
I'm sorry your candidate did not win, but, griping and pettiness will not give her the nomination, and it won't help in advancing Hillary Clinton's agenda (As it has been since the beginning, the agendas of the two candidates were VERY similar). But, if you care about Senator Clinton's goals for the American people, you must vote for Barack Obama.
Anecdotal, but interesting nonetheless, this article reports on behind the scenes talk of Obama and Clinton supporters. The gap has not been closed between the two groups. It needs to be... soon.
- 6 votes
I doubt the gap will be closed. A lot of women (I'm one) feel that the Democrat party totally dissed on the women's vote in order to buy the black vote. Well, 52% of the white vote is a woman's vote and that is a whole lot larger than the black vote!
Lot's of luck Obama. Blacks vote for a black man and admit it is because he is black and it is called identity politics. When white women want a white woman it is called racism. A white man, John McCain, votes a lot like Hillary in the Senate and I think he will get a lot of "typical white women" voting for him.
- 5 votes
I'm going Green this year. I've been a Dem all of my adult life but no more. The DNC has done a terrible job, I couldn't vote for McCain and I suppose BO will be the next pres because I think Daffy Duck should be able to beat the repubs. At least I will know I'm not responsible for the outsome.
No marie, when white women vote for a white women that is called identity politics as well. Plus isnt that what its all about. you vote for the person you identify with and believe in. How is it wrong for black people to vote for a man that they identify with. For once african americans in this country have a candidate they identify with, look like and believe in. So what is wrong with that!! Out of the 200+ year history of this country blacks have never had a candidate identify with, let alone be as smart, classy and electible as Obama!!!! Nobody ever said voting for a white women is racist!! GET OVER YOURSELF!!
- 4 votes
Lot's of luck Obama. Blacks vote for a black man and admit it is because he is black and it is called identity politics.
I am a white guy and I voted for Obama because I identify with him.
Black people are a minority in the United States. Barack Obama could not have won the primaries without a significant number of white people voting for him.
Hillary Clinton constantly touted the "white working class" in her campaign - how is that any less racist or anything other identity politics? Obama can say he won the black vote, the educated white vote, urban democratic vote - there are dozens of way to spin the demographics, but in the end, Obama won. It wasn't because of his skin color, it wasn't because Hillary Clinton was a woman.
- 4 votes
You're absolutely right...I am white and a woman and I know MANY white EDUCATED people voting for Obama. I quess the Educated whites is the words here. Cause the ones who are complaining about Obama beating Hillary really don't seem too smart at all. Their views on what needs attention in our country are VERY similiar, which is what we should be voting for!
- 1 vote
ham,...I'm white and a guy. I supported Hillary. Now I support "the candidate of color." Let's face it we're all colored even albinos, they are really white. I went through the 60s.
Now I find I'm behind a man who realizes Martin and my 60s dream. We have different ages but at heart we're the same.
- 1 vote
From one white male to another, thank you for your common sense.
- 1 vote
Jade - so glad you are voting for Obama too! Had Obama not won, I would've voted for Hillary in a heartbeat. We do not need another 4 yrs. of Bush like tactics. I too went through the 60's, and I'm proud I have lived through all that has happened through our years. I am also proud that I was able to see a woman run for President and a Black Man that has a Great chance of becoming our President.
- 2 votes
Larry and ham,...I want to start a group discussion. Are you interested?
I know there is some disapointment in the hilary camp, but i think it's almost funny how people are running around pretending to be hillary supporters just to pump mcaine,if you have to use tricks and dishonesty to help your candidate you are so lame and you are ruining this great country with your games ...the ends dont justify the means.. you know who you are,shame on you..
- 2 votes
Who cares...those two are only worried about headlines and polls! As for Hillary's debt, she has enough money!!! What about the individuals that made donations to her campaign? I would assume they don't expect their contributions back!!!
Maybe we can just raise taxes! That seems to be the answer to everything!
- 2 votes
Jason,
seems like you are buying into the republican propaganda that all dems want to do is raise taxes. Actualy, my understanding of obamas position is that he will let the republican tax cuts for the uber wealthy run out and cut the taxes of regular middle income folk (me and you), so unless you are in the top 1%, obamas/dems plan is better for your pocket book
Repubs have been supporting the interests of the rich and those of big componies. remember, the oil componies are getting all kinds of tax breaks...and making record profits, the repubs made it illegal for the govt to negotiate down the cost of prescription drugs (for the benefit of pharmaceutical industries and to the detriment of everyday americans), I could go on but i think ive made my point
- 2 votes
sibuor,...Some it seems perversely take delight in carping. They seem to be unhappy people. People who blame others for their predicament. You offered a valid explanation.
I just have the feelings they'll feel better complaining.
- 1 vote
Jason,
You are misinformed on the tax issue. Mr. Obama is not going to raise taxes on the middle-class and the poor. He is going to raise taxes on those individuals that are not paying their fair share. People making over $200,000.00 or more. How about that?
- 4 votes
I thought he stated in one of the debates that he would consider raising taxes on people with an income of 90,000 or more. I distinctly remember it was Hillary who said she would only raise taxes on those who made 200,000 or more....
What they'll do to your tax bill
McCain and Obama want to change the bottom-line effects of the tax code. Here's a dollars-and-cents breakdown of what their plans could mean for you.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- John McCain and Barack Obama have starkly different philosophies about tax policy - how to raise the revenue needed to support government programs, spur growth and ensure economic fairness.
But voters really want to know one thing: How would the presidential candidates' views trickle down to their tax bills? A report released Wednesday by a nonpartisan policy group in Washington, D.C., takes a big first step toward answering that question.
According to the Tax Policy Center's findings, the common assumptions most people make about the plans of McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, and Obama, the Democrats' pick, are not wildly off-base.
McCain: The average taxpayer in every income group would see a lower tax bill, but high-income taxpayers would benefit more than everyone else.
Obama: High-income taxpayers would pay more in taxes, while everyone else's tax bill would be reduced. Those who benefit the most - in terms of reducing their taxes as a percentage of after-tax income - are in the lowest income groups.
Under both plans, all American taxpayers could pay a price for their tax cuts: a bigger deficit. The Tax Policy Center estimates that over 10 years, McCain's tax proposals could increase the national debt by as much as $4.5 trillion with interest, while Obama's could add as much as $3.3 trillion.
The reason: neither plan would raise the amount of revenue expected under current tax policy - which assumes all the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts expire by 2011. And neither plan would raise enough to cover expected government costs during those 10 years.
"Distributionally, they're markedly different. But in terms of their impact on revenue, the two plans are not terribly different," said Roberton Williams, principal research associate at the Tax Policy Center and the former deputy assistant director for tax analysis at the Congressional Budget Office.
A closer look
In addition to making the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent, McCain says he would double the exemption for dependents, lower the corporate tax rate, make expensing rules more generous for small businesses and lessen the bite of the estate tax and Alternative Minimum tax.
The net result: compared with their tax bill today, taxpayers on average would see their tax bill cut by nearly $1,200. That means their after-tax income would rise by 2%.
But those in the lowest income groups would only see their after-tax income rise by less than 1% (or between $19 and $319). By contrast, the highest-income households - those with incomes of at least $603,000 - would see a boost in after-tax income of 3.4%, or more than $40,000.
Obama's plan would keep the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts in place for everyone except those making more than roughly $250,000, and he would increase the capital gains tax.
Obama would also introduce new tax breaks for lower and middle-income groups. Such breaks include expanding the earned income tax credit, giving those making less than $150,000 a $500 tax credit per person on the first $8,100 in income, giving those making under $75,000 a 50% federal match on the first $1,000 of savings, and exempting seniors making less than $50,000 from having to pay income tax.
Like McCain, Obama would lessen the bite of the estate tax and the Alternative Minimum Tax, but to a lesser degree.
The net result: compared with their tax bill today, taxpayers on average would see their tax bill cut by nearly $160 under Obama's plan. That means their after-tax income would rise by 0.3%.
But those in the lowest-income groups would enjoy the biggest after-tax income rise as a percentage of income - between 2.4% and 5.5% (worth between $567 and $1,042). By contrast, the highest-income households - those with at least $603,000 in income - would see a dramatic decline in their after-tax income - a drop of 8.7%, or $116,000.
The campaigns respond
Jason Furman, a newly appointed senior economic adviser to Obama, said his preliminary response is that the report's findings bear out what Obama's campaign has been saying: that he's for the middle class.
"Middle-class families get tax cuts that are three times larger from Obama than from McCain," Furman said. "And the McCain plan gives nearly one-quarter of its benefits to households making more than $2.8 million annually - the top 0.1%."
Douglas Holtz-Eakin, senior economic adviser to McCain, noted that the report does not take into account the spending reforms - such as eliminating earmarks - that are central to McCain's strategy to support tax relief and help reduce the deficit.
One of the center's co-directors, William Gale, conceded in a conference call that "if McCain succeeds (in achieving his proposed spending cuts), the fiscal cost of his plan does go down."
But spending cuts can be politically difficult to achieve, said Len Burman, the Tax Policy Center's director.
Holtz-Eakin characterized McCain's plan as one geared toward "reshaping federal bureaucracies and protecting taxpayers' money. [His] plan is based on kicking down doors in Washington, and delivering tax dollars back to the American taxpayers who are struggling with record gas prices, soaring food costs and a down economy."
Not the final word
Williams said the Tax Policy Center analysis should be viewed as a work in progress. Researchers plan to update it as they get more information about the plans from the campaigns and if the candidates introduce new tax policies between now and Election Day.
The center will also incorporate the tax elements of McCain's and Obama's health care proposals when they update their findings.
BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS
Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals were fully in place.
MCCAINOBAMA
IncomeAvg. tax billAvg. tax bill
Over $2.9M-$269,364+$701,885
$603K and up-$45,361+$115,974
$227K-$603K-$7,871+$12
$161K-$227K-$4,380-$2,789
$112K-$161K-$2,614-$2,204
$66K-$112K-$1,009-$1,290
$38K-$66K-$319-$1,042
$19K-$38K-$113-$892
Under $19K-$19-$567
Source:The Tax Policy Center
- 1 vote
Excellent post, thank you Grandma...I wish some of these people would actually take the time to read this.
- 1 vote
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
- 3 votes
You-all,...the time for ridicule is past. Just go cold turkey and stop being inflammatory.
- 2 votes
You are misinformed on the tax issue. Mr. Obama is not going to raise taxes on the middle-class and the poor. He is going to raise taxes on those individuals that are not paying their fair share. People making over $200,000.00 or more. How about that?
In order to live the way your parents lived in the 1960's on just one income. The cars, the house, the percent of savings, college funds and take the vacations out parents did you would need to make between 185-220,000.00 a year.
The middle class is a myth. The government now calculates media family income. Based on a percentile. A family of 4 making over 30k qualifies for federal assistance.
There is no middle class just the poverty stricken on government assistance, the working poor who are on government assistance and the the lower class for whom a job loss or illness away from being on assistance.
200,000.00 inflation adjusted would be middle class. were it not for expansive government and people being taxed to death, we might have amiddle class.
Ye Gods Ms. Cleaver!
Sounds like you've already bought the snipers rifle. don't forget a good scope.
if i gave money to obama's campaign I'd be outraged that it went to pay off the debt, not just of his rival, but of a multimillionaire at that! She blew it, let her and bill pay it off, they have the money!!!! Even if they didn't, one weekend in hollywood and I'm sure they'd have it, why should working people pay this off? If the fat cats want to throw money around, so be it.
Party unity my ass.. Puma pac, Hillary Clinton Supports for John McCain.. hcsfjm.com
- 2 votes
I find all the polls that state that a good portion of the Hillary supporters have now switched to BO's "camp" very interesting and very wrong. I recently met a group of "wofers" - women over forty for Hillary and all have switched to McCain. The stats said that out of 2000 people polled 1 out of 5 have not switched to BO - so where are these polls being taken?
- 2 votes
I agree. I see the liberal bandwaggoners jumping ship. The truth is being exposed about Obama and the puppets that he has supporting him. Look at our Judicial system. It's all the liberalists that have an agenda to undermine true justice by distorting the constitution. Obama want to change it to One Nation Under Allah, just wait and see. For all the naive Obama lovers.
Hellarious Val-U-Jesus! Pure comedy!!! How do people like you come up with this stuff!!! one nation under Allah, that is a new one. what else fantisy logic do people like you have under your sleves.....???
- 2 votes
MBSean,...These folks are like wild fires. There not funny really. They're emotional arsonists, throwing matches at the tinder of loss. Best to not pay any attention. Eventually they'll go elsewhere to play their games.
- 1 vote
There is no unity of the party. People are stupid if they think we are going to be voting for Obama.
If Hillary were anything like Obama I would not have voted for her.
And by the way you Obama supporters - I am SICK AND TIRED of you harping on race all the time.
You think you are helping Obama by calling everybody racist but I can tell you it is just turning off more and more people.
Even Dennis Miller said the other day that he used to like Obama even though he wouldn't vote for him, but now he is just tired of the race card being played over and over again.
You want to help Obama you need to knock it off.
It is hurting him, not helping.
- 2 votes
Hillary's and Obama's policies are virtually the same. I think it's childish for you not to vote for Obama because you don't like his personality. If you liked Hillary for her policies, then vote for Obama. Don't vote for McCain out of sheer spite.
Just like when everyone was crying sexist when Hillary was in the race? Nobody is using the race card, we're just calling out the racists, because believe it or not, they're out there.
- 1 vote
I'm cool with that? looks like were going to have a white house full of Rap partys and hip hop meetings!!
P-diddy can be Homeland security director, Al Sharpton can be spirtitual advisor, 50 cent can be treasurer, Wesley Snipes can over see the IRS, Mr-T can be director of the FBI, this should be fun to watch...Obama may even start his own record label..White House Records!!!!
- 1 vote
He's going to have a Hummer Limo with spinners, singing "Ebony and Ivory" with his supporters. Then he'll go to the Gay Pride Parade, dress like the Native American and perform YMCA. I can just see it now! Man will this country fall apart if this joker gets elected President.
please tell me how the phrase "Im cool with that", relates to rap parties and hummers. Im guessing its because it was utterd by a black man...Man people on this board even more Ignorant then I thought
- 3 votes
Val-U-Jesus,
You said: Most blacks are uninformed. They are too busy watching MTV cribs and cashing their Unemployment checks at the local 7-11. Let's face it, there aren't too many out their majoring in politics, they are more likely to get scholarships for Basketball.
Well, that said it all. You don't know many African-Americans. LOLOLOL.
- 2 votes
You pegged it lin nil; they're just malcontent racists. You know like the white supremacists.
They have the same intellectual weight as a pot holder.
- 3 votes
Better than what we have now a bunch of old,ugly white god complex,power hungry,war mongering,secret agendas and a pres. that sounds more like cartman on south park than the leader of the free world.... I do want i want.... attitude
- 1 vote
How can you say that Obama is the candidate only because of the black vote and these so-called Muslim connections? The demographics of his supporters clearly shows that was not true! Also, how can you make a blanket statement saying that blacks are voting for him only because he's black. You are basically saying that all blacks that vote for him are uninformed about politics. I think with this statement you should mention the people who DID NOT vote for Obama because he black. I know many blacks, especially women, who voted for Hillary ..... not Obama! The bottom line is that Obama is the Democratic party's nominee and he needs to focus on winning, not helping Hillary to recoup her losses.
- 3 votes
How do you explain that over 90% of blacks voted Barack over Hillary? Is it because of identical political views or is it the fact that Barack is promising more funding for government entitlement programs? Where is that funding coming from? I don't know?
It is unprecedented that a racial group has voted 92% for one candidate-
Don't tell me that the black support for him is not because HE is black!!
I would venture to guess IF he were white, with the credentials and his affiliated baggage, his associations, and his shortage of experience, he would have been dumped out of the primaries months, and months ago.
This is what Farraro was saying. This is a reality, not a racial slam.
Yes, he is intelligent- Yes, he is a great orator-
BUT the above reasons are why he should NOT be in the position he is, AND the reason he IS in the position he is!
- 4 votes
In polls blacks are saying themselves they are voting for him because "he looks like me." That's their own reason, not on put on them.
Most blacks are uninformed. They are too busy watching MTV cribs and cashing their Unemployment checks at the local 7-11. Let's face it, there aren't too many out their majoring in politics, they are more likely to get scholarships for Basketball.
- 1 vote
Most of the articles being written have very nicely broken down the black and white vote for everyone. Prior to the campaign, the Clintons did alot for the black community but, of course, all of that has been forgotten and the black vote went to BO. Duh.............
- 2 votes
The negative above,...Go to My Space, Facebook or the Barbie blog. Your comments have the validity of an asparagus farts.
It's delusional chutzpah to think that Hillary's supporters will contribute to Obama's campaign. Not only will I not contribute to his campaign, I will not vote for him. As a matter of fact, it is true that he does not have the experience, skills or judgment - political, economic, military, strategic and apparently diplomatic - since he can't seem to get along with people outside his campaign - to be President. I don't care about his "managerial skiils", if he had them he would have managed to get out of the grip of Tony Rezco and the Chicago Political Mafiamachine.
Hillary cut him a lot of slack by throwing her support behind him but she should pay off her own debt, and her supporters can help that if they want to, but he can raise his own money since he's the Wunderkindt of moneyraising and the Pied Piper of a new lost generation.
- 2 votes
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
- 1 vote
You are so right. A vote for McCain is a lot closer to a Hillary vote than self described (in his books) Marxist, Obama. Hillary loves this country. McCain loves this country and they are closer on many issues than Obama and Hillary.
- 1 vote
miamivoice stop plagiarising other people's comments ie "Delusional chutzpa...use your own words please
Miamiavoice,
You are clueless! you could have kept that to yourself. The statements you made reveals your low level of intelligence.
- 1 vote
No color no gender,...Those above your entry are agitators. Keep the Dems divided. A house divided...will not stand. Let them rage. Let them vote for whomever they want.
They are the minions of gobbledygook, the nattering Nabobs and the kinky boot beasts
of this election. Let them gather around the edges of irrelevance.
- 1 vote
Obama doesn't need the Clintons and their shrill poor-loser supporters. He shouldn't give them anything or reach out to blowhard Bill. I am going to give a donation to Obama right this minute and encourage him not to reduce the debt that was used to unfairly sully his name.
Polls show that there are slow-minded, dim-witted Democrats who have an obsession with putting the Clintons back in power and won't vote for Obama if Hillary is not on the ticket. Fittingly there are the same number of voters who won't vote for Obama if Hillary is on the ticket. There are some people who are just tired of the Clintons and their unending thirst for power.
Many folks are weary of Obama already and his Marxist leanings and thirst for power and for what purpose? His associations with known terrorists and actual contributions to many make him highly suspect as an American President. If you need to know more check out Obama and the following on Google: Khalidi, Rezko/Auchi, American Communist Party, PLO, Hamas, Odinga/Kenya, Brother Obonga, "Frank", Dorn/Ayers etc. It reads like a list of the shady and the Muslim Extremist enemy.
Nobama! Not without a Hillary VP which isn't looking likely.
- 1 vote
He grew up as Barry, changed it to Barack. So he would be Barack Obama - I'm following his wishes of not mentioning his middle name or initial.
Keep your 50 cents in your pocket you are donating to this smurf and yet you refer to others as dim witted...you do not seem to be too smart yourself
No Color, relax,
Shrinks call this kind of reaction "projection". What the distressed personality sees as it's own faults, it projects onto some convienient target that has achieved what it found beyond it's own capacity. A lot less threatening than facing the actual problems that keep blighting it's own opportunities.
Am I the only one seeing that MSN.COM.. is always a negative about Obama, and either nothing or only positive about McCain?...
I was a Hillary supporter and like a lot of my friends that were Hillary supporters, we would much rather have Obama than McCain. The democratic party to the despair of the republican party will be fine.
I still have hope that Hillary will be the next VP.......
The narcissism evident in the preceding comments explains everything wrong with this election. It is not sexist to point out that HRC and her donors are still acting like she was entitled to the nomination - but it IS reverse sexism to claim that her gender cost her the election.
Consider the final three paragraphs of Fineman's article:
"Clinton threw around her weight early on, and the Obama people haven't forgotten.
A year ago, here in New Hampshire, experienced Democrats with access to money were told that, if they supported Obama, they would be shut out in Washington once Clinton became president.
'Now these same people who were threatening us want us to pay off Hillary's debt!' said another Obama funder. 'This is what my husband calls "delusional chutzpah.'"'"
And HRC supporters and donors are angry? Unbelievable.
- 3 votes
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
Correction to my previous post. A Win. Well said I couldn't agree more.
First of all, the tension between Obama and Clinton is mostly created by the media and only exists there. All of you fighting about Clinton being this and Obama being that need to accept the nominee and realize the two of them will support each other to beat McCain.
Second, this Howard Fineman idiot needs to read the other articles that are being published on msnbc before he tries harder to create a divide among democrats or is attempts to get more readership by sensationalizing every he said she said piece of garbage that falls into his lap.
Obamas cut check to help Clinton pay off debt
He meets with ex-rival's backers, receives standing ovation for support
updated 12:38 a.m. ET, Fri., June. 27, 2008
- 2 votes
Why in the hell are they walking on hot coals around Hillary the fool, I wouldn't go around the corner with Hillary the fool.....They really don't need this as.. hole of a woman...I used to like her until she played the race card, that let me know exactly how she felt about me as a black woman, as a person, my husband said something that I hadn't thought of, and that is that she is a publicity hound,,,so true, so true, and she means this country no good and I'd rather have a person in The white house who cares about family and friends about hunger, and trying to get the world to come together all races and colors, thats what I'm for..... for the children, and grand parents, about health care and bringing the boys home.
- 1 vote
Clinton is smart. She knows that if there is a chance of party unity, she and Bill need to be out there showing support. For that support there is a price to pay. She named her price simple as that.
- 1 vote
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
Why don't you find something better to do with your time we got your message once you do not have to repeat it every five minutes
- 1 vote
I say Obama doesn't need her. I think people are tired of the Clintons and the way they play the game. He raised enough money without her during the primaries and he certainly can do it again. Obama just needs to say F@#k you Hillary and Bill. Move on and don't worry about the die hard Clinton supports, because it doesn't matter what he does or how much of her debt he helps get paid...he will never win the bitter sore losers support.
He can win without her! In fact it would make it a much sweeter victory!
- 1 vote
Amelia, that was brilliant! You managed to turn discussion by making issue color. My hat is off to you! People get back to the issue and quit being so dog gone gullable! Then again, if you are voting for either.... enough said about culpability I guess!
The thing I don't get is why HRC supporters want to punish Obama for winning. If there was any discrimination by the media, DNC, etc., was that Obama's fault? How ridiculous is it to be mad at him when he was only trying to do the same thing HRC was trying to do ---- be President of the United States.
- 1 vote
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
I dont see the big deal with Hillary wanting help from the Obama camp. Considering he really needs her voters to vote for him. He still needs Hillary!!
- 2 votes
Obama does not need Clinton.....He needs the senate, the house of Representatives, the voices on the Hill....these are the people who don't want this thing to crash and burn...it's stupid to think that this woman has that kind of power, surely she does not......she's a stupid spoiled brat....
So she should blackmail him into getting her votes. I don't think the die hard Clinton fans will vote for Obama. He doesn't really need them. He wont get them anyway. No matter what he does. He will win and it will be without Clinton supporters. She shouldn't blackmail him into getting her support. She should do what she said she was going to do....Unite the Party, Support Obama if he were the nominee....Didn't she say all of those things throughout the Primary? I wouldn't help her. I'd call her out on it and tell her to suck an egg!
Sorry dumsart, but the stats are saying he absolutely needs Hillary's votes to win. Many have already said they are committed to McCain since his views on many things are closer in the Senate to his colleague, Hillary than to Marxist--most Left voting person in the Senate, Obama.
That is why he is doing his best to woo her fundraisers and committee persons. Without the large (even vast) part of the party who voted for Hillary, he is a lost little boy.
Remember that a lot of bloggers from the early voting states are saying that they want their Obama vote back after the Reverend Wright issues started the landslide of evil BO acquaintances coming out of the woodwork. Anyone who isn't aware of these scandals from the "fresh" candidate google Obama and any of the following: Khalidi, Ayers/Dorn/ Odinga/Kenya, Obonga, PLO, Hamas, American Communist Party, Louis Farrakhan, Black Panthers etc. etc. etc.
This is why soooo many who voted for him wish they could have their votes back, but it was too late by then. You will notice Hill won by far the vast majority of the votes and states when some of the truth started coming out about Obama.
I don't so much mind that he was raised a Muslim. I DO mind that he lied about it. Check the LA Times and AP articles about the findings of investigative reporters who went to Indonesia to check it out. He went to school registered as a Muslim and took Koranic classes reserved for the more religious Muslim students. It is true he did not attend Madrases, but he did attend Mosque regularly according to friends. Also, when a Times reporter was interviewing him he broke into the evening Muslim prayer and recited it perfectly in Arabic (not a language of any place he had lived--except in mosques and schools) and said the evening call to prayer of the Muslims was the sweetest sound on earth. Might be BO, but don't lie to us about your background. This background does explain his actions in Kenya--check the NY Sun., Jan. 11, 2007.
For more intensive background on this guy which is why many want their vote back, go to freedomsenemies.com/_more/obama.htm. You will find original sources for the materials that are on that interesting and revelatory source.
Don't go there if you are a real American and want to vote for Obama. It will persuade you you have fallen for an "empty suit" and a "pretty face" (not so much with those purple lips).
- 1 vote
the muslim school he went to was both muslim and christian,before that he went to a purely catholic school,his mom was an atheist, and so friggin what,why is religion just a big deal and when did Barrack lie about his education history?????He was a child and he went to school where his mom sent him....I am happy to have a new pres. that understands that understands the world around us,not a cowboy with an oil agenda God Bless Barrack Obama
- 1 vote
Amelia the words you speak are out of ignorance, know the facts before you speak, why do you feel that clinton should still be the candidate? The fact is Obama has the vote, period. It isnt about skin color or as you say "muslim Connections" he isn't muslim he just has a muslim name. And as far as black people voting for him because he is black is not entirely correct, there are alot of blacks who still refuse to vote for him, just the same as there are alot of whites who would not have voted for clinton. What does qualified mean? it means "to make fit for a job, to make legally capable" was Bush "qualified?" you take a good, honest look at the mess this country is in which our current "leaders" have put us in. We need someone with fresh ideas and the ability to think ahead, to "lead."
- 2 votes
I'm not a Obama fan and don't want him elected.
He did nothing to Hillary as far as I can see.
His team was just way smarter than Hillary.
They started off by lining up all the caucas states and doing a superb job of winning them.
Hillary may have more votes but she let the caucass slip away.
That is her own fault.
I think she thought she had it in the bag and was lazy (mentally) not physically.
I would rather see her as the candidate.
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
Please shut the hell up, Ward Clever! How many times are you going to post this crap? It's fine to post it once...
Hell, you don't even speak for me. "We are women, hear us roar?" I'm a white, middle-class woman and you certainly don't speak for me. I would've voted for HRC if she had won the nomination, even though I've been supporting Barack Obama. Get over yourself.
BARACK OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT!
AND, I'll only post this once, you tart!
- 1 vote
It is very true that Obama is overwhelmingly carrying the black vote, but the point that I was making was that (1) not ALL blacks are voting for him and (2) blacks are NOT the only ones voting for him. If ONLY blacks voted for him he would not be the democratic nominee. We need to give credit where credit is due.
- 1 vote
Blacks are voting for him at 90+% and saying themselves that it is because he is black.
That is an invalid point when there is over 90%...there is an exception to every rule! Of course when you are talking millions of people, surely you'll find a few that voted the other way! But when you have over 9 out of 10 black people voting for Barack I tend to lean toward the rule and not the exception!
Yes. I agree, it's simple statistics and yes, even Jay Leno had a street poll and all of the blacks were backing Obama when asked about the presidency. Some of them actually thought he had already won the Presidency by defeating Clinton. LOL.
- 1 vote
the blacks, gays, the tree huggers, the anti war, and the liberalists are all voting for Obama. That's a fact.
- 1 vote
So? Women were saying they voted for Hillary because she was a woman and they wanted a woman in the White House.
I'm a white, 38 year old woman and I voted for Obama. It's not just African-Americans - it's smart people of all races and walks of life who know that this country needs change.
- 2 votes
marie, jason and Val-u-jesus...
You guys are totally missing the point and fact!
Ok 90% of african americans voted for obama, but that didnt give him the election. It was the many others who voted his way and it is clearly noted that out of the people who voted for him, that population was majorty white!
So its like this: even if 100% of blacks voted for him and nobody else, that alone wouldnt even give him the election. Im sorry, sure the black vote caries more weight then it has in the past, but it sure as hell doesnt carry the amount of weight as you suggest. YOU GUYS ARE JUST MAKING EXCUSES
- 1 vote
sure, obama might have gotten 90% of the black vote, but how many voters did not vote for him because he is black? the so called blue collar working class whites with no college education mostly voted for hill. To win, he had to appeal to a variety of groups, and as we have all heard before, he attracted young voters who dont care so much about race. If the black vote by itself was all it took to win, Al sharpton would have been president when he last ran.
The fact is, on the issues, barack and hillary were almost identical. so voters voted for who they identified with the most. blacks for obama and women for hillary.
on the issues, obama and Mccain are completely different. Obamas politics is closer to my own so i will vote for him. Deciding to vote against Obama because you think he is a muslim or because he is black is just ignorant. In any case, experience is overated over judgment. cheney and rummy had years of experience and what good was it? Bush had experience as a gov of a major state...we can all agree he turned out to be a major blunder. Im going to choose good judgment over experience
- 1 vote
I expect America to be driven into a financial hole with Obama's leadership. His inexperience is masked by his "change" talk. Under President Clinton America experienced great financial growth. I think America has passed up a chance to regain some of its greatness by falling under the spell of a master of disguise. Real and lasting change always requires a tested and proven method that has structure. And, no, I don't think he won the nomination because he is black, he won because of the yuppie's listening to the change talk. Wait until they start to loose some of their investments, jobs and retirement packages then they will know what I am talking about. I will not contribute to Obama's campaign nor will I vote for him. McCain's experience has my vote after Hillary's loss. And so will many of my friends be voting for McCain.
- 1 vote
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
"I expect America to be driven into a financial hole with Obama's leadership. "
You do mean a FURTHER financial hole, right? Bush said he was going to run the country like a corporation, and he did - just like the oil company he put out of business. We are literally billions of dollars in debt to countries like China. 4 more years of the Bush Administration under McCain isn't going to change that.
sure that same financial hole that Bush has gotten us into and that McBush harbors!! OH PUULLLEEAASSEE!!!! Give me a break!!!
- 1 vote
You would vote for a person who has to borrow money to keep up in her campain, she just spent money she could never pay back, and you expect she can budget a country? She couldn't even pay her employee's health insurance, and want to jail people who can"t pay for their insurance premiums...come on...people!
- 1 vote
Then go ahead and vote for McCain! Who cares? How in the world can you vote for someone that goes against policy the person you were supporting is for. Grow up and stop acting like little children people. Hillary lost! Except it and move on! I you want to be stupid and waste your vote on John McCain go right ahead. I'm a Clinton supporter and I think that anyone of you that votes for John McCain because Hillary did not win the nomination is STUPID. HOW ABOUT THAT?
- 3 votes
Who cares what you think? I just don't want OBAMA to win. I'd pick Arnold S. or Arnold Drummond before I pick him.
John McCain should have the audacity to hope. Obama and Clinton in-fighting may yet again undermine the Dems best chance in years to recapture the White House. Controlling both the executive and legislative branches won't work any better for the Democratics than it did for the the Republicans. Voters will see the folly of their ways in time.
Haughtiness is an obvious Obama characteristic. That has come across loud and clear since early 2007. That's why I won't be voting Democratic this year. If he is a breath of fresh air as a politician, then I'm Elizabeth I or Joan of Arc. Hillary SHOULD be the nominee; she got the most votes. The system is broken. The big news in November will be how women over 50 voted. I look forward to that short/not so sweet essay or broadcast.
Hillary, it's time to FIGHT NOT UNITE!!!! If we do WE will take back what is rightfully OURS!!! Hillary, we must expose the sexism that is rampant within the DNC and by doing so destroy and castrate that wholly male instrument. Hillary, we must not let the fact that Obama received as many popular votes as you dissuade us!!! We must not let the fact that Obama received more pledge delegates interfere!!!! We must not let the fact the Obama received more super delegates SILENCE OUR SCREAMS!!!!!!!! WE ARE WOMEN, HEAR US ROAR!!!!
Hillary can still win as long as she continues to run her campaign the way her women supporters run their lives; with an absence of logic and decisions based purely on emotion.
HILLARY FOR PRES. IN '09
Children
How old are you people!!!!!
- 2 votes
I agree! I taught for 31 years and this sounds like a playground fight. Spewing all this hate and misinformation gets us nowhere. I have a hard time believing that these Hilary supporters, who are so angry she lost, want more of the same crap that we've had for the past 8 year. Let's look at the whole picture and see what will move this country forward.
- 2 votes
You just proved their point, no color no gender! Or shall I say troll? Oops, I'm falling for the same sh*t your throwing.
- 1 vote
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